Curse

Cebe · Apr 10, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

After having read this post by Sun Fired Blank, I came to realise that at no point were the words "Protective Spirit" mentioned. I'm just wanting to find out if Protective Spirit is widely used for (just about) all builds, or if it's kept on the backburner in favour of others.

I'll explain the reason why I ask. After having read that post, everything made a lot of sense and I feel I gained something from it, yet I was struck by the lack of the mention of PS. My main use for my Monk these days is Alliance Battles, purely because playing Monk anywhere else seems boring in comparison. We'll bear in mind here I play just about no PvP outside of AB, and outside of AB, my Monk will only get used if someone is desperate for one in PvE.

My strategy for Monking in Alliance Battles is to pre-cast Protective Spirit on party members I feel are "at risk" just before we engage the enemy. I usually use Glyph of Lesser Energy to fuel me casting 3-4 Protective Spirits. But, should I be using more of an active protection approach, and is slapping PS on people lazy and inefficient? Should I be waiting for people to start being beaten upon before I cast PS?

I guess what I'm trying to find out from the wider community here, is:

1. Is Protective Spirit a wise choice for AB?
2. Am I "doing it right"..or should I change the way I use it?

Input is appreciated.

Kyrein · Apr 10, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

i use it fairly often

don't go around spamming it on people.....dear god no

if you see someone taking damage, put it on them, but that's it

jonnieboi05 · Apr 10, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

pre prot is never bad, but, never waste it on something you seem "lazy and inefficient". for example, in AB, before you would go into the ele shrine you 'should' cast PS on yourself and at least one other "vital" member (assuming you're always with at least 1 of your team members and the other 2 are just pugs who break away from you -cough-) b/c if you don't, then chances are you will get the hell spiked out of you, or, at least do a very big amount of dmg. that's my 2 cents on the matter..... OH! umm... also, don't go around spamming PS, that's a no-no. it will burn your energy dry in a heart beat.

iunno... i guess it's prefference. i wouldn't never dare to go into RA/AB without prot spirit (as a monk primary) though. it's too much of an important skill since those 2 arenas are what i like to call "Spikes R Us"

but meh... this is only coming from some-1 who's well seasoned in PvP and has a respectable "rank" in both gladiator (3) and hero (7), so, the ultimate choice is up to you.

~LeNa~

Cebe · Apr 10, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

To clarify: I don't "go around spamming Protective Spirit on every friendly NPC and every other player I see".

I use it on allies before we engage the enemy, and then re-cast it on people who are being beat on, when PS has ended on them. I was simply questioning my own use of it, and even if whether I should be taking something else instead.

jonnieboi05 · Apr 10, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

yea, b/c we all know "PROT SPIRIT UP! KILL MOB GOGO!" results in failure in AB. ^^

~LeNa~

Pyro maniac · Apr 10, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Specialized options. Spirit Bond and Spotless Mind are probably the most obvious options that come to mind.

Spirit Bond > Protective Spirit

jonnieboi05 · Apr 10, 2008, 08:54 AM // 08:54

meh... spirit bond is a horrible skill imo. sure, the effect is nice, but what do you do if they aren't hitting you hard enough? waste of 10 energy (and that's assuming you aren't spamming it).

prot spirit > spirit bond.

~LeNa~

Cebe · Apr 10, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Spirit Bond > Protective Spirit

Yay, someone picked up on what I was actually trying to ascertain.

So...do "better monks" drop PS in favour of SB? I've always been scared of SB because that really is spammable and expensive.

jonnieboi05 · Apr 10, 2008, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

So...do "better monks" drop PS in favour of SB?

coming from some-1 who only monks in PvP, i would most definately say no. spirit bond is too costy and if the heal condition isn't met you're quite screwed with that 10 energy you wasted (again, assuming you have been spamming it, then even more than 10).

~LeNa~

Paddatoochie · Apr 10, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

On a Monk you should have roughly 600 health anyway. Lets say 580.

So if you're getting hit hard enough for Prot spirit to reduce any damage they'll be hitting you for roughly 60+ damage anyway. They could have hit for 59 however, but in this case, it comes down to just being able to pre prot, and read the situation accordingly.

In the end you'll save a lot more damage with SB than you ever would with PS, as you're actually healing the person when they take the damage as well. The end result is that you won't have to heal the party member as much after you have applied SB as you would with PS.

So. For solo monking, I would generally tend to go with SB.

Bront · Apr 10, 2008, 09:12 AM // 09:12

I'm new to monking, but from reading and just general PvE play...

PS is good to mitigate damage, particularly in areas where you expect to take a lot of repeated mid level damage. It's particularly effective on players with lower health levels in the first place (Players with no health buffs, or Major/Superior runes) due to the lower trigger thresh hold, and as a timed effect, is likely to have at least some effect no matter what if you're in combat.

SB is good at preventing spikes by healing if you take large chunks of damage. Particularly usefull pre-spike, but nearly useless vs pressure. Well timed, it could potentialy neutralize a spike.

So, my advice? Don't use both on the same target. PS I think would prevent SB from triggering.

Seriously, it's probably a matter of preference on the monk level. If you have 2 monks, probably not a bad idea to give 1 to each of the monks, though that could result in the above situation.

In PvE, it probably depends on the area. HM and some high end NM areas, SB might be more functional. as you'll get hit for larger chunks of damage more often. Outside of that, PS is probably more useful.

The other thing to remember is, that on general utility, PS still is helpful when SB triggers, but PS can be helpful on effects that wouldn't trigger SB.

I'm still learning though, so take what I said with a grain of salt.

Pyro maniac · Apr 10, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Both trigger at 60+ damage.
Spirit Bond heals for ~80 when the condition is met.
Protective Spirit negates everything above 60 damage.

Thus spirit bond is more effective at the 60-140 damage range. Starting from 140 damage, prot spirit is better. In PvE Hard Mode, Protective Spirit is generally better. In PvP (the post was about Arena's), Spirit Bond is better, since there isn't much damage that goes above 140.

The use of Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond is the same: pre-prot.

LightningHell · Apr 10, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

PS isn't particularly good in PvP.

Protective Spirit's and Spirit Bond's trigger points are roughly the same, and if you're not taking any 150-esque hits consecutively you're better off using Spirit Bond. Spirit Bond helps a lot more than Protective Spirits in spikes in any usual situation.

Quote:

meh... spirit bond is a horrible skill imo. sure, the effect is nice, but what do you do if they aren't hitting you hard enough? waste of 10 energy (and that's assuming you aren't spamming it).

prot spirit > spirit bond.

Apart from Prot Spirit triggering on about the same amount, the other thing to take into consideration is that if they're hitting that low, you're probably better off either using a small prot or a direct heal (or a combination of the two) instead of a large prot. Anything immediately below 60 would make RoF good, and anything significantly below 60 probably would make good SoA/Shielding Hands material.

Cebe · Apr 10, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Thanks all for those responses. Seems I need to update my build and learn how to use Spirit Bond efficiently.

Are there any mechanisms monks use to "power" spirit bond, or do real monks not use any form of energy management, and rely on careful, and skillful use of the skill? For example, I've been using Glyph of Lesser Energy to aid me in pre-protecting with PS, but it is a cumbersome, 30-second recharge skill, and find myself wondering if it should be replaced, or even any management used at all.

I notice in the post I linked to in my OP, it talks about using a self-defense skill...would I be better off using this than energy management?

jonnieboi05 · Apr 10, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

iunno... i've tested about every "flavor" skill that people seem to like and they just don't come off as effective as they claim it to be. 95% of my glad points and 70% of my fame are from monking/healing, and, i just never seen a "must-have" factor from SB, SoA, and SH. roughly ~2 weeks after NF was released, i created a build that i monk with when i RA and stil use 'til this day that has given me guarenteed 15+ conseqs almost ALL the time when i monk, but, when i used SoA, SH, SB, ect, they just didn't cut the butter and we have a harder time getting more than 5-6 conseqs.

i'm very fond of the build i created and still use 'til this day, and, i would stand by 'til the very end whenever i say PS is > SB. ^^

edit: @ OP - no, i use glyph of lesser as well, and the energy management is absolutely amazing with skills such as ZB (though i would highly recommend NOT using ZB in AB) and prot spirit. for self-defense, guardian is your best friend. your energ

your energy managment as a monk should be faily high. i monk wit 3 different sets: my low sets (which i am on at ALL times unless pushed/forced to up my energy, which rarely rarely happens), my "normal" set, and my high set (which in my 26 month GW carreer i have only been forced to use this set only twice in pvp).

low set: 45 energy
normal set: 57 energy
high set: 72 energy

an example for some nice energy management for RA would be this: glyph allows you to have a 'very' nice energy storage w/ ZB. 2 free casts and a free +7 energy (if you monk like i do, you play slightly risky/efficiently and don't heal unless they're less than 70ish% health, and by doing so, you can get another ZB off on some-1 for ANOTHER +7 energy)

~LeNa~

Pyro maniac · Apr 10, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Thanks all for those responses. Seems I need to update my build and learn how to use Spirit Bond efficiently.

Are there any mechanisms monks use to "power" spirit bond, or do real monks not use any form of energy management, and rely on careful, and skillful use of the skill? For example, I've been using Glyph of Lesser Energy to aid me in pre-protecting with PS, but it is a cumbersome, 30-second recharge skill, and find myself wondering if it should be replaced, or even any management used at all.

I notice in the post I linked to in my OP, it talks about using a self-defense skill...would I be better off using this than energy management?

I prefer an anti-monk stomp skill like return, natural stride or shield bash. Glyph of Lesser Energy is fine tho. In Alliance Battles it will also let you choose Storm Djinn's Haste which is good.
'My Bar' in the arena's is:
[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill][skill]Mend Condition[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Shield Bash[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill]

I like the double condition removal, however you could use double hex removal if you like.

Cebe · Apr 10, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Any reason for Holy Veil over Cure Hex?

Pyro maniac · Apr 10, 2008, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Any reason for Holy Veil over Cure Hex?

Maintaining it on the warrior makes it a easy job for the ranger to interupt hexes.
And it makes it easy to remove critical hexes on a hex stack. (removes the bottom one)
You could take both if you like, although I prefer to run spotless mind then.

jonnieboi05 · Apr 10, 2008, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Any reason for Holy Veil over Cure Hex?

from my exp, i've noticed that i run different skills in different arenas.

AB = cure hex
RA = holy veil
HA = cure hex/spotless mind (never both, it depends on what they want you to run if the other monk has the alternate from what you have out of these 2.

~LeNa~

xDusT II · Apr 10, 2008, 10:25 AM // 10:25

SB is somewhat stronger on it's own than PS, considering it on it's own is enough to save someone from death under the right circumstances.
Not taking it because of the fear that it won't trigger is dumb. LEarn what does trigger it often. Scythes, Hammers, Sin comboes, 15+ specced axes or adren spikes etc (14 spec axe crits for 59, 14 spec spear crit for 56, expect people in AB to run 16 in their weapon attribute anyway).

If it helps, my typical 4 man bar, most probably stolen from someone is:

rof, zb, mendc, veil, sb/soa (Rarely, I don't like SoA), guardian, mending touch, disciplined stance